Interview Transcript: South Baylo University

Sara: How does South Baylo ensure success for its students?

Dr. Follick: We are careful when we admit [the students] to make sure they have the qualifications and can profit from the instruction here [which] requires 2 years on a semester-quarter basis - 60 semesters units or 90 quarter units - to get in. Then we also have a chemistry and physiology course for the ones that might be lacking a few units. Also, we have various tests that we give throughout the program. We have the comprehensive test CCE 1 which goes over the basic sciences in the first part of the curriculum. Then, before they graduate, we have the CCE 2 which they must take before they get their diploma. Then we look at the results of the State Board. Our passing rate this last time was 83% which isn’t bad. We’re required to have at least 60% on some tests and 70% on others, but 83% of our people passed, so that was a good rate; and, we’re competing amongst all the other schools of course! On that score, we have a lot of gatekeepers on various points like certain clinic entrance examinations before they start needling. Then, you have so many hours of observations first when you’re a student - when you’re going into clinic. You observe the doctor and other students apply the acupuncture principles, and needling, and herbology. Then the next one is revised practice - where licensed clinicians stand over you while you put the needles in or prescribe. The last thing is the longest phase. That’s what we call individual or independent practice. They have the clinician or doctor come in and approve where you’re going to put the needles. Then, the doctor leaves; and, of course you’re with all these other students; and, then you punch the needles in, but you’ve already pointed out the points, so you’re doing the right thing. So, you see all of these experiences help students to be successful because I do happen to be a chiropractor as well; and, when you first start treating your patients you’re very nervous. It’s nerve-racking. You don’t want to hurt anyone. The first order of business is do the patient no harm, so it makes all of us nervous; and, our students are the same way. That’s why we tell them and I tell them (as a librarian and as president): the more clinical experience they can get, the more comfortable they will be. You’re not completely comfortable all the time. You look at somebody and you keep asking yourself: “Am I doing this right? Have I overlooked anything?”, so we teach them to be careful.

Sara: What makes South Baylo more advantageous for students than would commercialized universities, such as schools in the University of California (UC) and California State University (CSU) systems?

Dr. Follick: [UC and CSU systems] are very good systems. Of course, I’m a graduate at Cal State L.A. with a B.A. and M.A., so I naturally have an affinity for them. I did go to Junior College: Pasadena City College which I ground through a lot of heavy courses there. That gave me a wonderful background. I wasn’t a football player or anything. In fact, I had a counselor that was in a wheelchair. [She] said she was not going to put me in the football program, so she put me in ballroom dancing in the girl’s gym! I had to open every door carefully, but I did get a chance to dance with the Rose Queen even, so that was kind of interesting. I was with one student. They said, at the time, the highest score on the test - not that I was a good dancer (I could be gracious; and, that was all that they were looking for - but they had all these questions: “How do you introduce an older person to younger person.. How do you introduce a president to a young woman… and so on.” I knew all of those nuances; and, that was the only reason why I scored high. The advantage here would be we’re not asking people to completely bypass the Universities of California, California State Universities, or even good community colleges. They have to come with 60 units minimum (semester units are 90 quarter hours), but a good share of them come from baccalaureate degrees already. One girl (a lady working in the library). We have two sisters: both are MDs from the Vietnam. In fact, Chu - C-H-U I think it is - one is a gynecologist and one’s an oncologist. I think the one working with me is an oncologist… so we have people with MDs, people with PhD degrees. We have them working in the library too. There’s what is called a Korea Advanced Institute of Technology and Science in Korea. It’s their MIT. They do high-ranking research. Well, I have several of those… several of those people in the library; and, I’ve worked with them. We have a number on staff, so those kind of people would come and go through the program. Well, you see, “Why are they doing that?...Why are they bypassing the University of California?” Well, the University of California doesn’t have to do anything with alternative medicine; and, there are a lot of people that are into alternative medicine like acupuncture, for example, and chiropracting. Chiropracting is isn’t a panacea - isn’t something that cures all. No healing art is a panacea, but the people who exhausted all their medical remedies - they’ve tried everything and they’re still in terrible pain - the last resort they go to is a chiropractor. Now, if they get better, THEY’RE GOING TO GO BACK! Now, the chiropractors aren’t successful with all of those things either, but the ones that they are successful with, get patients and you just keep your office full. Famous lawyer, Melvin Belli, up in San Francisco, had terrible migraines; and, he went to University of San Francisco, California hospitals and Stanford, and went to every place - those headaches were debilitating to him. Finally, they said try this lady chiropractor, and you’d think: “What? A woman chiropractor?” She was like Quyen…small, petite, wonderful woman. How could that woman do something? She got him in the table, put him, and adjusted his neck, and he said, “It’s gone! It’s gone!” He’s gone back to her and he sent more patients from his personal entry work than anything else. That’s the role of complementary medicine; and, people have come here to get that training on top of their academic training, so that they can become practitioners, open up - “put up a shingle” they say… “Put up a sign” that they are doctors of Asian medicine. That would be the advantage to coming here, say opposed, but they’ve usually already been. In fact, Dr. Lily Lynn earned her B.S. in biochemistry from Cal State San Bernardino. She’s the deputy of the L.A. campus. She’s in Taiwan now. Her parents sent her to Colorado where she earned an M.S. in management. Then, she came in here and earned her masters and doctorate in Asian medicine - passed all the boards, took the national board which is hard here, and probably passed it blindfolded. She won’t admit it, but she has both certification in acupuncture and in herbology which is very hard. But the Chinese - I’ve heard - they just look at the character and it tells them the answer.

Sara: The Anaheim Union High School District (AUHSD) recently established new goals for its students, in which students must be critical thinkers, communicators, collaborators, creative innovators, and civically literate. How will South Baylo help its students achieve these soft skills which are a main focus for AUHSD and its students?

Dr. Follick: Well, this school naturally has to teach how to get along with people. You see, the role between a patient and a doctor requires all of this; and, when you’re in the public - in fact - when I started in Canoga Park, California (out there - Woodland Hills - near Ventura County line), people from West Hills Hospital - a nurse called my assistant and said they wanted to talk to talk to the doctor about maybe giving a lecture. So, my assistant came and said, “Doctor, they want you have you give a lecture.” So, I got on the phone with her - very nice lady nurses - and I said to her, “Oh, how did you get my name?” She said, “Well we’ve heard a lot about you.” I said, “Well, good (I hope).” And, she said, “We want to talk with an educated doctor” - translation (you know “the educated”). She said, “We can’t afford to pay an honorarium, but we can go into Sambo’s,” which use to be a very nice restaurant in the right of Sherman Way in Canoga Park, “and we’ll buy you a steak dinner if you give us a lecture.” Now, I didn’t have a lot of money then, and I’m not a billionaire now, but, so I took them up on it - and, you see, that’s what we call “outreach”. Now, we teach to our people to do that. You’ve got to learn how to handle children. Sometimes, they are kind of rigid. You’ve seen sometimes - I don’t think it’s just Asian people, but I think it's noticeable more with them - that they’re kind of reluctant to talk or to meet new people. You don’t want someone who just flows over everybody, but you have to be willing to kind of say Hello, and put the people comfortable when they’re in your office, so that’s what they’re learning here.

Sara: Essentially, the main goal of our civic project is to bring awareness of the need to publicize Anaheim’s universities in hopes that more Anaheim residents will consider to attend. In what way must Anaheim’s universities such as South Baylo be publicized to spread its message to Anaheim students?

Dr. Follick: Well, the message is that this is the biggest Asian medical school in the United States with 500 students - a lot may have 100, 150, 250. Now, there are other many great Asian schools and other schools. Bastyr University, up in Washington state, offers Doctor of Chiropractic, offers some in Psychology, Nutrition - they all offer multiple degrees in general. And, some of our even - what use to be chiropractic colleges - have become universities; and, they are offering the Doctor of Education and Doctor of Psychology degrees, so there is an outflowing, but for Asian medicine, as it is now, somebody that wants to find a good Asian medical school - we would hope that they come to Anaheim. Enough people have come here, so I think that kind of shows, put your publicity helps. You know, that’s why I always take the time. If anyone wants to see me, I always take the time to give them the time of day and to show them the place.

Sara: What message would you like to give to the residents and students in the City of Anaheim?

Dr. Follick: Well, we’re here to promote natural health. Our clinic is open. We have many wonderful interns that are highly qualified; and, we would hope that students that are considering a career in complementary or alternative medicine would take a look at us, and especially those that are interested in acupuncture. It’s different, but you have to learn Western medicine - chiropractic, even more so. You have to learn just like you’re an M.D. Then, you also have to learn the technology, the vocabulary which is hard of Asian medicine and chiropracting - even harder of Asian medicine for Anglo people. Non-Asian people have a hard time memorizing the words, the pronunciation, and that. And, it’s difficult for me, but I’m not in acupuncture. I think we’ve kind of hit the questions… Anything else you’d like to ask of me...

Sara: I just want to say thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to interview you. Taking the time for this is very...

Dr. Follick: I am very honored to do it...very honored to do it.